1 00:00:22,359 --> 00:00:09,080 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 2 00:00:31,609 --> 00:00:25,100 hello and welcome to the skeptic zone 3 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:31,619 episode number 417 October the 16th 2016 4 00:00:35,540 --> 00:00:33,210 Richard Saunders here with you from 5 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:35,550 Sydney Australia thanks to everybody who 6 00:00:40,670 --> 00:00:37,890 is written in saying how much they 7 00:00:42,860 --> 00:00:40,680 enjoyed the live show last week the live 8 00:00:45,500 --> 00:00:42,870 skeptics own life a couple of little 9 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:45,510 microphone problems along the way it's a 10 00:00:48,079 --> 00:00:46,650 bit funny when you're doing a live 11 00:00:51,020 --> 00:00:48,089 situation like that there's lots of 12 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:51,030 bases to cover and the venue the 13 00:00:56,420 --> 00:00:53,370 Occidental hotel which is downtown 14 00:00:58,100 --> 00:00:56,430 Sydney was am a new venue first time the 15 00:01:02,000 --> 00:00:58,110 skeptics have been there so we had some 16 00:01:04,249 --> 00:01:02,010 technical issues to try and iron out I 17 00:01:06,020 --> 00:01:04,259 mean by and large it went okay on the 18 00:01:07,460 --> 00:01:06,030 night and of course people who were 19 00:01:10,820 --> 00:01:07,470 there on the night will realize how much 20 00:01:13,190 --> 00:01:10,830 I had to edit out lots of little gaps 21 00:01:14,779 --> 00:01:13,200 and things going a bit wrong and but we 22 00:01:16,310 --> 00:01:14,789 got there we got there in the end and 23 00:01:18,230 --> 00:01:16,320 thanks to all the people who did turn up 24 00:01:20,540 --> 00:01:18,240 and we look forward to seeing you at the 25 00:01:21,830 --> 00:01:20,550 next Sydney skeptics in the pub coming 26 00:01:22,999 --> 00:01:21,840 up on this week's episode what do we 27 00:01:26,359 --> 00:01:23,009 have we're going to kick off with an 28 00:01:28,429 --> 00:01:26,369 interview a catch-up a regular spot i'd 29 00:01:30,230 --> 00:01:28,439 have to say with our friend Michael 30 00:01:33,580 --> 00:01:30,240 Marshall from the good thinking society 31 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:33,590 in the UK now right now as we speak 32 00:01:39,069 --> 00:01:35,850 Michael Marshall and lots of other 33 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:39,079 people lucky people are at the QED 34 00:01:44,569 --> 00:01:42,090 convention in Manchester one of the 35 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:44,579 better ones in the world it's all right 36 00:01:47,899 --> 00:01:45,810 the pleasure of speaking there twice 37 00:01:49,850 --> 00:01:47,909 it's fantastic good to know that there 38 00:01:52,789 --> 00:01:49,860 will be some Australian representation 39 00:01:54,410 --> 00:01:52,799 there our reporter Iran sir give who is 40 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:54,420 also of course president of Australian 41 00:01:57,530 --> 00:01:56,250 skeptics will be there dr. Cole cruise 42 00:01:59,990 --> 00:01:57,540 on this key will be there and I'm sure 43 00:02:02,270 --> 00:02:00,000 smattering of other Australians anyway 44 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:02,280 Michael Marshall in an interview 45 00:02:05,770 --> 00:02:03,930 recorded a few days ago is going to 46 00:02:09,740 --> 00:02:05,780 bring us up to date on the latest are 47 00:02:11,569 --> 00:02:09,750 home via pathak news homeopathic news be 48 00:02:13,910 --> 00:02:11,579 very short news woodman if it was true 49 00:02:16,970 --> 00:02:13,920 homeopathic news coming out of the UK 50 00:02:19,310 --> 00:02:16,980 some good good news they're coming out 51 00:02:23,810 --> 00:02:19,320 of the UK in regards to homeopathy and 52 00:02:26,150 --> 00:02:23,820 of course he'll be discussing QED after 53 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:26,160 that we're going to read the statement 54 00:02:34,580 --> 00:02:29,130 from the nursing and midwifery Board of 55 00:02:37,220 --> 00:02:34,590 Australia in regard to the tiny 56 00:02:40,990 --> 00:02:37,230 minority of nurses and midwives who are 57 00:02:44,210 --> 00:02:41,000 anti-vaccination and have been posting 58 00:02:46,970 --> 00:02:44,220 memes on the internet we covered this 59 00:02:48,979 --> 00:02:46,980 story a few weeks ago and we'll be 60 00:02:51,740 --> 00:02:48,989 covering that news in the middle of the 61 00:02:54,229 --> 00:02:51,750 show then to round off the show may not 62 00:02:56,479 --> 00:02:54,239 spooky action a couple of weeks ago men 63 00:02:59,780 --> 00:02:56,489 are denying a group of skeptics went to 64 00:03:02,720 --> 00:02:59,790 see Ben Goldacre speak here live in 65 00:03:05,300 --> 00:03:02,730 Sydney what an entertaining night that 66 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:05,310 was and may not took the opportunity to 67 00:03:13,130 --> 00:03:10,530 interview famed famed science reporter 68 00:03:15,319 --> 00:03:13,140 here in Australia Robin Williams not to 69 00:03:17,660 --> 00:03:15,329 be confused with the late american actor 70 00:03:20,059 --> 00:03:17,670 Robin Williams here in Australia who is 71 00:03:22,220 --> 00:03:20,069 actually a distant distant cousin of 72 00:03:24,170 --> 00:03:22,230 mine somewhere along the way Robin 73 00:03:27,229 --> 00:03:24,180 Williams has been doing the science show 74 00:03:30,740 --> 00:03:27,239 here in Australia on ABC radio for very 75 00:03:32,990 --> 00:03:30,750 many years and then may nod catches up 76 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:33,000 with cigna dean who you would have heard 77 00:03:39,830 --> 00:03:35,970 last week on the skeptics own life cigna 78 00:03:42,500 --> 00:03:39,840 does wonderful work for the broadcaster 79 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:42,510 SBS well that's enough for me at the 80 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:46,290 moment there's more news to tune into at 81 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:48,810 the end of this episode but right now 82 00:03:56,210 --> 00:03:51,690 I'm going to run downstairs open the 83 00:03:58,099 --> 00:03:56,220 pantry get the nice grain and seed bread 84 00:04:00,920 --> 00:03:58,109 out and toast up a couple of slices of 85 00:04:05,659 --> 00:04:00,930 that and you know what I'm going to open 86 00:04:08,229 --> 00:04:05,669 up a can of tinned spaghetti and I'm 87 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:08,239 going to have tinned spaghetti on toast 88 00:04:17,719 --> 00:04:11,690 like I used to do when I was just a kid 89 00:04:19,430 --> 00:04:17,729 tinned spaghetti on toast why not while 90 00:04:22,580 --> 00:04:19,440 I'm doing that and reminiscing I hope 91 00:04:45,710 --> 00:04:22,590 you enjoy the skeptic zone 92 00:04:51,330 --> 00:04:48,870 joining me now as he often does all the 93 00:04:52,950 --> 00:04:51,340 way from Liverpool to old friend from 94 00:04:56,100 --> 00:04:52,960 the good thinking society Michael 95 00:04:57,840 --> 00:04:56,110 Marshall Marsh hello hi Richard and 96 00:04:59,490 --> 00:04:57,850 hello to all the skeptics on this it's 97 00:05:01,410 --> 00:04:59,500 been months it's a bit of the show I 98 00:05:03,930 --> 00:05:01,420 don't know what's been going on so it's 99 00:05:06,060 --> 00:05:03,940 terrible yes yes this will never do my 100 00:05:07,580 --> 00:05:06,070 alarm went off and it said ring Michael 101 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:07,590 Marshall so I thought I'd better do it 102 00:05:12,270 --> 00:05:10,210 but no really we're going to discuss a 103 00:05:15,570 --> 00:05:12,280 few things at the moment and it's nice 104 00:05:17,940 --> 00:05:15,580 to have you as a as a regular guest on 105 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:17,950 the skeptic zone let's start straight 106 00:05:23,130 --> 00:05:20,650 away with some news coming out of your 107 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:23,140 part of the world concerning homeopathy 108 00:05:27,090 --> 00:05:25,570 what's happening now Marsh well there's 109 00:05:29,910 --> 00:05:27,100 a few different things to be honest so 110 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:29,920 we've had two big sort of victories two 111 00:05:34,740 --> 00:05:32,170 big successes for the good thinking 112 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:34,750 society here in the UK so one of which 113 00:05:38,730 --> 00:05:36,610 was to do with the charities that 114 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:38,740 promote homeopathy and I'm sure you're 115 00:05:43,250 --> 00:05:40,210 you've seen these kind of charities 116 00:05:45,030 --> 00:05:43,260 around but here in the UK we had several 117 00:05:47,820 --> 00:05:45,040 charities that were particularly 118 00:05:49,740 --> 00:05:47,830 concerning to us so people like there's 119 00:05:51,590 --> 00:05:49,750 a group called the mound project who 120 00:05:55,140 --> 00:05:51,600 promote homeopathy in Botswana 121 00:05:57,870 --> 00:05:55,150 specifically to AIDS patients ooh so you 122 00:06:00,210 --> 00:05:57,880 can this is the very cutting edge of the 123 00:06:02,700 --> 00:06:00,220 what's the harm argument yes here is the 124 00:06:04,140 --> 00:06:02,710 charity that is promoting a ineffective 125 00:06:07,260 --> 00:06:04,150 treatment to people who are clearly 126 00:06:09,450 --> 00:06:07,270 incredibly ill and so this is actually 127 00:06:12,900 --> 00:06:09,460 there's been a couple of years worth of 128 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:12,910 campaigning by a chapa who's a retired 129 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:15,130 clinical researcher clinical scientist 130 00:06:19,770 --> 00:06:18,010 called the less rules who was looking 131 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:19,780 into these various different homeopathic 132 00:06:23,490 --> 00:06:21,010 charities and other charities that 133 00:06:25,650 --> 00:06:23,500 promote nonsense and trying to argue to 134 00:06:27,420 --> 00:06:25,660 the charities regulator that they should 135 00:06:30,150 --> 00:06:27,430 not be considered charities if what 136 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:30,160 they're doing is promoting nonsense you 137 00:06:33,270 --> 00:06:31,450 know you can't be a health charity if 138 00:06:36,330 --> 00:06:33,280 what you're promoting has no health 139 00:06:37,710 --> 00:06:36,340 benefits at all and let's spend a couple 140 00:06:38,910 --> 00:06:37,720 years going back and forth with the 141 00:06:41,250 --> 00:06:38,920 other charities Commission which is the 142 00:06:44,130 --> 00:06:41,260 regulator here in the UK and getting 143 00:06:45,510 --> 00:06:44,140 largely nowhere so he kind of turned to 144 00:06:47,820 --> 00:06:45,520 us with good thinking to say what can we 145 00:06:49,860 --> 00:06:47,830 do about this and so we first of all we 146 00:06:51,030 --> 00:06:49,870 organized a few health professionals to 147 00:06:52,470 --> 00:06:51,040 write the charity commission with an 148 00:06:53,990 --> 00:06:52,480 open letter that we published 149 00:06:57,270 --> 00:06:54,000 national magazine national newspaper 150 00:06:58,380 --> 00:06:57,280 saying you need to regulate these health 151 00:07:00,630 --> 00:06:58,390 charities that are putting people in 152 00:07:02,280 --> 00:07:00,640 harm's way and nothing happened and so 153 00:07:03,990 --> 00:07:02,290 we put a big expose in another newspaper 154 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:04,000 pointing out all the really crazy 155 00:07:07,470 --> 00:07:05,650 dangerous claims that get made by these 156 00:07:09,990 --> 00:07:07,480 charities hmm and still the charity 157 00:07:12,150 --> 00:07:10,000 commission refused to act so then what 158 00:07:13,650 --> 00:07:12,160 actually happened was our lawyers took a 159 00:07:15,180 --> 00:07:13,660 look at this we took this to the lawyers 160 00:07:16,710 --> 00:07:15,190 that we work with with good thinking 161 00:07:19,290 --> 00:07:16,720 society occasionally called binmen 162 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:19,300 public law firm fantastic law firm who 163 00:07:23,070 --> 00:07:20,650 took really great work here in the UK 164 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:23,080 sort of on making sure that governmental 165 00:07:27,270 --> 00:07:24,970 decisions where they're using public 166 00:07:30,540 --> 00:07:27,280 funds are made based on good evidence 167 00:07:32,700 --> 00:07:30,550 and in the public good and we 168 00:07:36,510 --> 00:07:32,710 effectively threatened to sue the 169 00:07:39,300 --> 00:07:36,520 charity commission for their failure 170 00:07:41,070 --> 00:07:39,310 their refusal to bring any action 171 00:07:43,860 --> 00:07:41,080 against these charities that promote 172 00:07:45,690 --> 00:07:43,870 things that don't work which is 173 00:07:48,780 --> 00:07:45,700 certainly an interesting day in good 174 00:07:51,210 --> 00:07:48,790 thinking headquarters when God I mean 175 00:07:53,460 --> 00:07:51,220 obviously we're a charity ourselves so 176 00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:53,470 we were effectively threatening to sue 177 00:08:00,510 --> 00:07:57,010 our own regulator for failing to do 178 00:08:02,790 --> 00:08:00,520 their job and we set a deadline to say 179 00:08:05,190 --> 00:08:02,800 if by Friday got the weeks ago if by 180 00:08:07,650 --> 00:08:05,200 Friday you hadn't commissioned a full 181 00:08:09,540 --> 00:08:07,660 review of these charities and looked at 182 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:09,550 their their status and then looked at 183 00:08:14,130 --> 00:08:11,410 what evidence actually allows you to be 184 00:08:15,900 --> 00:08:14,140 a charity promoting health then we'll 185 00:08:18,270 --> 00:08:15,910 take you to court over your failure to 186 00:08:19,830 --> 00:08:18,280 do your job as a regulator and when it 187 00:08:21,930 --> 00:08:19,840 start of the week it looked like they 188 00:08:23,850 --> 00:08:21,940 weren't budging we put a big piece in 189 00:08:25,500 --> 00:08:23,860 The Daily Mail and had a piece in the 190 00:08:27,750 --> 00:08:25,510 print Daily Mail the piece online saying 191 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:27,760 you know the charity regular Charity 192 00:08:31,170 --> 00:08:29,410 Commission are going to be taken to 193 00:08:33,630 --> 00:08:31,180 court by a charity for their failure to 194 00:08:35,219 --> 00:08:33,640 their job and on friday of that week 195 00:08:37,740 --> 00:08:35,229 they told us that they were going to 196 00:08:39,089 --> 00:08:37,750 have a full review which is taking place 197 00:08:41,580 --> 00:08:39,099 next year and they're going to go back 198 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:41,590 to their guidelines and look at exactly 199 00:08:46,830 --> 00:08:45,130 what constitutes a health charity what 200 00:08:48,900 --> 00:08:46,840 charities are allowed to claim to do in 201 00:08:52,020 --> 00:08:48,910 order to be a charity of a health 202 00:08:54,150 --> 00:08:52,030 charity and then they said if there any 203 00:08:55,740 --> 00:08:54,160 as a result of their review of their 204 00:08:57,300 --> 00:08:55,750 guidelines any charities need to be 205 00:08:58,710 --> 00:08:57,310 contacted about whether they are able to 206 00:09:00,780 --> 00:08:58,720 continue being a charity they'll take 207 00:09:02,190 --> 00:09:00,790 that on from there which as far as we 208 00:09:03,810 --> 00:09:02,200 can see is their way of saying we're 209 00:09:05,370 --> 00:09:03,820 going to start looking at our guidelines 210 00:09:06,150 --> 00:09:05,380 and make sure it's evidence-based and if 211 00:09:08,249 --> 00:09:06,160 you're not evidence 212 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:08,259 biz you're not a charity and that's 213 00:09:12,329 --> 00:09:09,850 certainly the way that we're reading the 214 00:09:14,639 --> 00:09:12,339 charity law so effectively it could mean 215 00:09:16,439 --> 00:09:14,649 that once a review takes place in July 216 00:09:18,449 --> 00:09:16,449 next year which is a kind of reasonable 217 00:09:21,300 --> 00:09:18,459 timeline to take it on board quite a 218 00:09:22,710 --> 00:09:21,310 comprehensive review it could mean that 219 00:09:24,389 --> 00:09:22,720 the charities out there that are 220 00:09:26,519 --> 00:09:24,399 promoting homeopathy for all sorts of 221 00:09:28,590 --> 00:09:26,529 things and promoting all these the weird 222 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:28,600 and bizarre and quite dangerous 223 00:09:31,740 --> 00:09:30,370 treatments for all sorts of things and 224 00:09:33,269 --> 00:09:31,750 still being currently allowed to be 225 00:09:34,619 --> 00:09:33,279 charities with text breaks and 226 00:09:36,900 --> 00:09:34,629 legitimacy and all that kind of stuff 227 00:09:38,850 --> 00:09:36,910 they're going to get some hopefully some 228 00:09:40,949 --> 00:09:38,860 letters through the door this time next 229 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:40,959 year explaining why they need to 230 00:09:44,999 --> 00:09:42,970 demonstrate that they can prove they can 231 00:09:46,230 --> 00:09:45,009 do what they say or they are no longer 232 00:09:48,119 --> 00:09:46,240 allowed to be charities that's what 233 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:48,129 we're we're thinking will come of this 234 00:09:51,300 --> 00:09:50,050 and it's some certainly good that the 235 00:09:53,699 --> 00:09:51,310 charity creation have committed to doing 236 00:09:56,460 --> 00:09:53,709 this review to start that ball rolling 237 00:09:59,519 --> 00:09:56,470 really it really is and i was actually i 238 00:10:01,410 --> 00:09:59,529 did enjoy the the podcast the skeptics 239 00:10:03,059 --> 00:10:01,420 of the case i normally do enjoy the 240 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:03,069 podcast skeptics with the k where you 241 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:05,290 were discussing this very topic and it 242 00:10:08,970 --> 00:10:06,610 occurred to me then as it occurred to me 243 00:10:11,269 --> 00:10:08,980 now that it must be somewhat out of the 244 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:11,279 experience of these people to get 245 00:10:16,199 --> 00:10:13,810 representation like the ones that you're 246 00:10:19,170 --> 00:10:16,209 presenting about these topics i guess 247 00:10:20,939 --> 00:10:19,180 nobody's ever really done it before yes 248 00:10:22,410 --> 00:10:20,949 as best we can tell that's the case I 249 00:10:24,780 --> 00:10:22,420 mean what one of the charity commission 250 00:10:26,220 --> 00:10:24,790 said in their response to the the 251 00:10:28,410 --> 00:10:26,230 various kind of legal correspondence 252 00:10:30,509 --> 00:10:28,420 we've had is that they recognize they 253 00:10:32,189 --> 00:10:30,519 are not the arbiters of what doesn't 254 00:10:34,410 --> 00:10:32,199 doesn't work hmm and previously they'd 255 00:10:38,309 --> 00:10:34,420 kind of taken an opinion of saying well 256 00:10:40,590 --> 00:10:38,319 if when you were registered as a charity 257 00:10:42,150 --> 00:10:40,600 if that was good enough to convince the 258 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:42,160 commission that yura you had a 259 00:10:46,590 --> 00:10:44,410 charitable goal at the time then it must 260 00:10:47,879 --> 00:10:46,600 still be fine and they even told us that 261 00:10:49,799 --> 00:10:47,889 there are doubt there are almost 262 00:10:51,689 --> 00:10:49,809 certainly many charities or some 263 00:10:53,100 --> 00:10:51,699 charities that are registered who if 264 00:10:55,980 --> 00:10:53,110 they were to try and register today 265 00:10:57,540 --> 00:10:55,990 would not pass the bar yes yes yeah 266 00:10:59,370 --> 00:10:57,550 which which is our way of saying well 267 00:11:01,110 --> 00:10:59,380 that just means you've got to go back 268 00:11:04,259 --> 00:11:01,120 and look at the other pic we registered 269 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:04,269 because you can't say as a regulator we 270 00:11:08,189 --> 00:11:06,370 determine who isn't who is and isn't a 271 00:11:10,049 --> 00:11:08,199 charity but we're not going to look at 272 00:11:11,639 --> 00:11:10,059 the people we've already determined you 273 00:11:14,069 --> 00:11:11,649 know you can't do that your job is to 274 00:11:15,809 --> 00:11:14,079 ensure that the people who are claiming 275 00:11:17,730 --> 00:11:15,819 to be charities have a charitable 276 00:11:19,350 --> 00:11:17,740 benefit and you can't just say well we 277 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:19,360 don't want to go back and look at those 278 00:11:24,449 --> 00:11:21,370 things we don't want a rake over hot or 279 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:24,459 cold calls as it were so well ya know 280 00:11:28,019 --> 00:11:26,290 it's encouraging you know they might be 281 00:11:30,180 --> 00:11:28,029 in for a bit of a shock now here's a 282 00:11:31,710 --> 00:11:30,190 question I I posed to my listeners a 283 00:11:33,500 --> 00:11:31,720 couple of weeks ago when I was talking 284 00:11:36,630 --> 00:11:33,510 about homeopathy and it's one that 285 00:11:39,180 --> 00:11:36,640 crossed my mind from time to time now we 286 00:11:41,009 --> 00:11:39,190 talked about how me homeopathy here's 287 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:41,019 some pills they're homeopathic pills or 288 00:11:46,730 --> 00:11:42,850 take this liquid it's homeopathic liquid 289 00:11:49,410 --> 00:11:46,740 but if it's indistinguishable from a 290 00:11:51,630 --> 00:11:49,420 placebo or water or plain water or just 291 00:11:53,340 --> 00:11:51,640 a sugar pill if there's completely no 292 00:11:56,449 --> 00:11:53,350 difference which we suspect is the case 293 00:11:58,920 --> 00:11:56,459 with homeopathy is there such a thing as 294 00:12:01,199 --> 00:11:58,930 homeopathy yeah I mean it's an 295 00:12:04,139 --> 00:12:01,209 interesting question and it's us the 296 00:12:05,819 --> 00:12:04,149 issue is that then comes down to an 297 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:05,829 advertising claimed more than anything 298 00:12:11,220 --> 00:12:09,970 else hmm and so because it homie opening 299 00:12:13,590 --> 00:12:11,230 is homeopathic if you say it's 300 00:12:15,449 --> 00:12:13,600 homeopathic there is no there's no way 301 00:12:17,610 --> 00:12:15,459 of proving something is or isn't told me 302 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:17,620 pathak you say it is and you would need 303 00:12:22,590 --> 00:12:20,290 a regular to who took a very hard line 304 00:12:24,509 --> 00:12:22,600 approach of determining whether 305 00:12:25,680 --> 00:12:24,519 something was homeopathic or not and of 306 00:12:28,230 --> 00:12:25,690 course the more you look at it that 307 00:12:29,790 --> 00:12:28,240 they're simply can it be and that's why 308 00:12:31,829 --> 00:12:29,800 even you that million-dollar challenge 309 00:12:33,870 --> 00:12:31,839 for yours is stood up to say you know if 310 00:12:36,269 --> 00:12:33,880 if you can tell one homeopathic remedy 311 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:36,279 from another yeah that similarly 312 00:12:39,110 --> 00:12:38,050 prepared other you get the million 313 00:12:41,699 --> 00:12:39,120 dollars and that's kind of a 314 00:12:44,610 --> 00:12:41,709 million-dollar question that you often 315 00:12:46,439 --> 00:12:44,620 put to homeopaths because yeah I mean 316 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:46,449 these these are just sugar pills and it 317 00:12:51,780 --> 00:12:49,890 there was a fantastic case from Nelson's 318 00:12:54,180 --> 00:12:51,790 with the biggest homeopathic 319 00:12:56,250 --> 00:12:54,190 manufacturer in the UK and they supply 320 00:12:58,829 --> 00:12:56,260 boots who's our biggest pharmacy they 321 00:13:00,750 --> 00:12:58,839 supply one of the NHS institutions one 322 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:00,760 of a few NHS institutions that still fun 323 00:13:03,870 --> 00:13:02,050 to help me or Cathy and we'll come to 324 00:13:05,910 --> 00:13:03,880 that in a minute but they are the 325 00:13:08,220 --> 00:13:05,920 supplies to those and they tried to get 326 00:13:10,230 --> 00:13:08,230 a license to supply to the to the US so 327 00:13:12,150 --> 00:13:10,240 they had to be evaluated by the FDA and 328 00:13:14,460 --> 00:13:12,160 so the FDA had to come in and see how 329 00:13:16,769 --> 00:13:14,470 exactly they're rather the manufacturing 330 00:13:18,930 --> 00:13:16,779 process worked and you've got these 331 00:13:21,210 --> 00:13:18,940 little your vials filled with sugar 332 00:13:23,060 --> 00:13:21,220 pills and they were in on the conveyor 333 00:13:25,680 --> 00:13:23,070 belt so cussing their way along the line 334 00:13:28,680 --> 00:13:25,690 already shaking waiting for the first 335 00:13:30,780 --> 00:13:28,690 drop of homeopathic liquid to go on and 336 00:13:33,110 --> 00:13:30,790 what the FDA found was when when that 337 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:33,120 drop of liquid first falls on the first 338 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:35,650 the little dropper comes down and puts a 339 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:37,450 drop into the vial of homeopathic pills 340 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:39,730 and gives it a shake and that's how that 341 00:13:45,150 --> 00:13:42,370 that that a vial of pills gets potent 342 00:13:47,460 --> 00:13:45,160 tised and and kind of activated now 343 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:47,470 obviously the amount of liquid in a 344 00:13:51,300 --> 00:13:48,970 single drop isn't enough to get to the 345 00:13:53,670 --> 00:13:51,310 very bottom pill the 30th pill in the 346 00:13:56,310 --> 00:13:53,680 vial of pills so the bottom pills have 347 00:13:57,840 --> 00:13:56,320 never seen any homeopathic liquid but 348 00:14:00,090 --> 00:13:57,850 the argument that Nelson's essentially 349 00:14:02,390 --> 00:14:00,100 put forward was wealthy the surco shun 350 00:14:04,590 --> 00:14:02,400 the vibrations shaking of user pills 351 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:04,600 transfers the energy from the Tom pill 352 00:14:07,230 --> 00:14:05,890 which is seen the liquid all the way 353 00:14:09,660 --> 00:14:07,240 down the bottom pill so the ba he'll 354 00:14:11,130 --> 00:14:09,670 still has all be open on it Wow but what 355 00:14:12,750 --> 00:14:11,140 the what the FDA found was even more 356 00:14:13,950 --> 00:14:12,760 astonishing that if you imagine then 357 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:13,960 that that essentially means that the 358 00:14:17,670 --> 00:14:15,610 pills at the bottom of that packet have 359 00:14:19,470 --> 00:14:17,680 never seen any homeopathic liquid those 360 00:14:21,170 --> 00:14:19,480 are not only pathak pills even by any 361 00:14:23,100 --> 00:14:21,180 definition of it's also just sugar pills 362 00:14:26,250 --> 00:14:23,110 what the FDA actually found was that 363 00:14:28,530 --> 00:14:26,260 because you're you're having these these 364 00:14:30,780 --> 00:14:28,540 vials of homeopathic pills shaking their 365 00:14:33,060 --> 00:14:30,790 way down the conveyor belt and the drop 366 00:14:35,370 --> 00:14:33,070 comes and the droplet the dropper puts a 367 00:14:39,060 --> 00:14:35,380 little pipette a drop of homeopathic 368 00:14:40,890 --> 00:14:39,070 liquid into the the vial on one in six 369 00:14:43,170 --> 00:14:40,900 occasions because the vial is shaking so 370 00:14:46,020 --> 00:14:43,180 vigorous II vigorously the the drop 371 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:46,030 missed and hit the conveyor belt and the 372 00:14:49,890 --> 00:14:47,890 pills shake their way down having never 373 00:14:52,020 --> 00:14:49,900 seen any homeopathy apparently nobody 374 00:14:53,340 --> 00:14:52,030 noticed that calls into a hell of a 375 00:14:55,500 --> 00:14:53,350 question and this is the biggest homie 376 00:14:57,180 --> 00:14:55,510 Babbitt manufacturer in the UK I mean 377 00:14:59,190 --> 00:14:57,190 they make an awful lot of money off of 378 00:15:03,360 --> 00:14:59,200 this they supply boots no supply parts 379 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:03,370 NHS and they were selling pills at least 380 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:05,250 during the time at the FDA were 381 00:15:09,210 --> 00:15:07,450 investigating they were selling 16 their 382 00:15:11,700 --> 00:15:09,220 pills having never touched a drop of 383 00:15:14,190 --> 00:15:11,710 homeopathic liquid in their lives it's a 384 00:15:15,870 --> 00:15:14,200 espanish it really is that when you when 385 00:15:17,700 --> 00:15:15,880 you tell me these things and I hear it 386 00:15:19,890 --> 00:15:17,710 again and I've heard so many things like 387 00:15:23,490 --> 00:15:19,900 this again and again and again it still 388 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:23,500 floors me I still find it inconceivable 389 00:15:29,940 --> 00:15:25,570 that this sort of thing can still get 390 00:15:31,260 --> 00:15:29,950 one in this day and age it's and I'm 391 00:15:32,850 --> 00:15:31,270 sure the listeners feel the same way 392 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:32,860 sometimes you just hear these things and 393 00:15:36,590 --> 00:15:34,570 you just can't believe you your ears 394 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:36,600 yeah it's it's astonishing I mean I I 395 00:15:40,860 --> 00:15:39,370 it's harder than way because I get a 396 00:15:42,780 --> 00:15:40,870 real kick out of skeptical 397 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:42,790 investigations and a lot of people say 398 00:15:46,510 --> 00:15:44,530 to me when you when you've been around 399 00:15:48,130 --> 00:15:46,520 this stuff for a long time and you don't 400 00:15:49,780 --> 00:15:48,140 necessarily always feel like you're 401 00:15:51,310 --> 00:15:49,790 getting somewhere what keeps you going 402 00:15:53,620 --> 00:15:51,320 it's that because sometimes you hear 403 00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:53,630 stories like that it's amazing you get 404 00:16:00,430 --> 00:15:56,690 these little glimpses of absolute just 405 00:16:02,770 --> 00:16:00,440 nuts things happening in in a real world 406 00:16:05,380 --> 00:16:02,780 I mean this is a manufacturing plant 407 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:05,390 that supplies a major national if not 408 00:16:08,500 --> 00:16:07,010 international pharmacy chain and 409 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:08,510 supplies the National Health Service and 410 00:16:13,180 --> 00:16:10,970 is something as utterly unbelievable 411 00:16:15,130 --> 00:16:13,190 than that happening at the core of it 412 00:16:16,690 --> 00:16:15,140 it's a it's absolutely astonishing and 413 00:16:20,140 --> 00:16:16,700 these these little strange stories that 414 00:16:22,150 --> 00:16:20,150 keep me motivated that and the 415 00:16:24,450 --> 00:16:22,160 occasional big victory like we've had 416 00:16:26,980 --> 00:16:24,460 with the charities thing and the NHS too 417 00:16:29,650 --> 00:16:26,990 well marsh a couple of weeks ago on the 418 00:16:32,500 --> 00:16:29,660 program we had a vet from your part of 419 00:16:34,810 --> 00:16:32,510 the world Denny chambers in fact yes 420 00:16:36,490 --> 00:16:34,820 Danny lovely fella wonderful wonderful 421 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:36,500 guy and he was railing against 422 00:16:42,310 --> 00:16:38,810 homeopathy being used for animals which 423 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:42,320 brings me as a funny segue to a posting 424 00:16:46,810 --> 00:16:44,570 I saw recently by the homeopathy plus 425 00:16:50,140 --> 00:16:46,820 people in Australia calling you skeptics 426 00:16:54,190 --> 00:16:50,150 dogs a dog act at wirral what's all that 427 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:54,200 about yes absolutely i'm not sure 428 00:16:58,120 --> 00:16:56,330 whether I've ever been compared to a dog 429 00:17:00,580 --> 00:16:58,130 before not quite your walk and a dog I 430 00:17:03,100 --> 00:17:00,590 would be maybe listeners can suggest 431 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:03,110 some i'm not sure but yes no we've we've 432 00:17:07,750 --> 00:17:05,690 had some fantastic news out of the world 433 00:17:09,670 --> 00:17:07,760 so but for listeners on the other side 434 00:17:10,810 --> 00:17:09,680 of the world of various various other 435 00:17:13,449 --> 00:17:10,820 part of the world they might not know 436 00:17:15,250 --> 00:17:13,459 where the world is but as i sit here in 437 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:15,260 liverpool the world is over the river 438 00:17:19,540 --> 00:17:17,450 where actually Mike hole who's the 439 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:19,550 president of merv the most sad skeptic 440 00:17:25,150 --> 00:17:21,530 society and the presenter of skeptics 441 00:17:28,890 --> 00:17:25,160 with okay where he lives and because the 442 00:17:31,180 --> 00:17:28,900 NHS in the UK only funds homeopathy on 443 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:31,190 it still fantoni off of you but it's 444 00:17:36,010 --> 00:17:33,890 it's a diminishing number of places one 445 00:17:37,530 --> 00:17:36,020 of the few places that were left that 446 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:37,540 funded homeopathy was the world 447 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:39,530 liverpool used to but liverpool made a 448 00:17:43,120 --> 00:17:41,330 decision in june to stop funding 449 00:17:45,670 --> 00:17:43,130 homeopathy as a result of the campaign 450 00:17:48,790 --> 00:17:45,680 by the the good thinking society that we 451 00:17:50,860 --> 00:17:48,800 ran to press them to review and then to 452 00:17:52,450 --> 00:17:50,870 get people engage in that review so that 453 00:17:53,860 --> 00:17:52,460 they'd actually hear from skeptics 454 00:17:57,100 --> 00:17:53,870 rather than just hearing from homeopathy 455 00:17:59,590 --> 00:17:57,110 thing around and what the sort of follow 456 00:18:00,250 --> 00:17:59,600 up to the loo political consultation if 457 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:00,260 you will 458 00:18:03,700 --> 00:18:02,330 was over the water their neighbors 459 00:18:05,050 --> 00:18:03,710 decided to review whether they'd 460 00:18:07,030 --> 00:18:05,060 continue funding all we offered me and 461 00:18:08,380 --> 00:18:07,040 because this is conscious consultation 462 00:18:10,180 --> 00:18:08,390 has been going on for it been going on 463 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:10,190 for about maybe a yearning Lee something 464 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:12,050 like that in that kind of area we 465 00:18:16,780 --> 00:18:15,290 corralled listeners to the podcasts and 466 00:18:18,460 --> 00:18:16,790 skeptics around the country and 467 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:18,470 supporters of good thinking and people 468 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:20,210 who care about evidence-based medicine 469 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:23,090 and how taxpayer money is spent when it 470 00:18:26,590 --> 00:18:24,770 comes to health care we corralled them 471 00:18:28,090 --> 00:18:26,600 to get involved in this consultation and 472 00:18:30,460 --> 00:18:28,100 what actually happened is the 473 00:18:32,980 --> 00:18:30,470 Constitution report came out and it 474 00:18:35,410 --> 00:18:32,990 turns out 1500 people responded to the 475 00:18:37,630 --> 00:18:35,420 consultation which is a huge number i 476 00:18:39,370 --> 00:18:37,640 mean 700 responded to liverpool that was 477 00:18:41,710 --> 00:18:39,380 considered very large we've more than 478 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:41,720 doubled that and what they found was of 479 00:18:46,120 --> 00:18:44,210 the people in that number who expressed 480 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:46,130 an opinion as to whether homeopathy 481 00:18:49,750 --> 00:18:48,290 should I shouldn't be funded ninety-five 482 00:18:51,340 --> 00:18:49,760 percent of people who responded said 483 00:18:55,120 --> 00:18:51,350 homeopathy should not be funded on the 484 00:18:57,370 --> 00:18:55,130 NHS in the world and only 48 people said 485 00:19:00,040 --> 00:18:57,380 it should so purpose were incredibly 486 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:00,050 small and what was really interesting is 487 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:01,610 a ten percent of the people who 488 00:19:05,290 --> 00:19:03,890 responded were from the world area and 489 00:19:06,700 --> 00:19:05,300 so the homeopath will obviously say well 490 00:19:08,500 --> 00:19:06,710 this is ninety percent of people from 491 00:19:11,470 --> 00:19:08,510 outside the world flooding this and 492 00:19:13,900 --> 00:19:11,480 changing the way that that you know that 493 00:19:17,110 --> 00:19:13,910 these decisions made locally yeah so if 494 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:17,120 you look at the numbers of it um if run 495 00:19:20,290 --> 00:19:19,010 about 1,200 people actually answered the 496 00:19:22,450 --> 00:19:20,300 questions to where the homeopathy should 497 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:22,460 be funded or not of the 1,500 ones of 498 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:24,530 the consultation so they said ten 499 00:19:27,910 --> 00:19:25,730 percent of people from the world's 500 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:27,920 that's 120 people from the world answer 501 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:29,450 that question now if we're being 502 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:31,250 generous and saying that every single 503 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:33,410 person who supported homeopathy was from 504 00:19:38,860 --> 00:19:36,050 the world that's still only 48 hour 120 505 00:19:40,900 --> 00:19:38,870 people which is far fewer than half so 506 00:19:42,970 --> 00:19:40,910 even by their if they want to say well 507 00:19:44,530 --> 00:19:42,980 the outside you know people outside of 508 00:19:46,030 --> 00:19:44,540 this area have tried to stop was getting 509 00:19:47,650 --> 00:19:46,040 access to hold me apne well more than 510 00:19:50,590 --> 00:19:47,660 sixty percent of people from that area 511 00:19:52,150 --> 00:19:50,600 at the lowest number also said 512 00:19:54,610 --> 00:19:52,160 homeopathy shouldn't be funded in this 513 00:19:56,590 --> 00:19:54,620 area and so it was a really huge strong 514 00:19:58,810 --> 00:19:56,600 response from skeptics are in the area 515 00:20:01,360 --> 00:19:58,820 around the country and as as a result of 516 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:01,370 that last week NHS world stopped funding 517 00:20:08,020 --> 00:20:04,490 homeopathy which was huge it was such a 518 00:20:10,990 --> 00:20:08,030 great result for us because it means not 519 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:11,000 only is homeopathy done in the northwest 520 00:20:14,259 --> 00:20:13,010 in the livable area because that was a 521 00:20:16,329 --> 00:20:14,269 world was the last one 522 00:20:19,329 --> 00:20:16,339 West but actually homeopathy now in 523 00:20:21,310 --> 00:20:19,339 England is just consigned to a little 524 00:20:23,019 --> 00:20:21,320 bit around the Bristol area hmm and a 525 00:20:24,549 --> 00:20:23,029 little bit in the London area and by a 526 00:20:27,579 --> 00:20:24,559 little bit about three million pounds 527 00:20:29,469 --> 00:20:27,589 ish in London at about 300,000 pounds in 528 00:20:30,969 --> 00:20:29,479 Bristol but those are the only two 529 00:20:32,739 --> 00:20:30,979 cities in England where you can get 530 00:20:34,659 --> 00:20:32,749 homeopathy and then you can also get 531 00:20:36,399 --> 00:20:34,669 some homeopathy in Glasgow and a few 532 00:20:38,799 --> 00:20:36,409 places around there right we are really 533 00:20:40,779 --> 00:20:38,809 starting to push back the time now and 534 00:20:43,810 --> 00:20:40,789 we are really starting to to see real 535 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:43,820 momentum yeah you know to see haul me 536 00:20:48,369 --> 00:20:46,129 off the ditch on the NHS and it means 537 00:20:50,739 --> 00:20:48,379 this puts a lot of pressure on the 538 00:20:52,749 --> 00:20:50,749 Bristol area as to whether they want to 539 00:20:54,310 --> 00:20:52,759 continue funding something that pretty 540 00:20:56,199 --> 00:20:54,320 much nowhere else in the country will 541 00:20:58,329 --> 00:20:56,209 fund it puts a lot of pressure on London 542 00:21:00,489 --> 00:20:58,339 and it allows us to start looking up to 543 00:21:02,919 --> 00:21:00,499 to Scotland to and seeing what we can do 544 00:21:04,149 --> 00:21:02,929 about asking those areas to start 545 00:21:06,099 --> 00:21:04,159 reviewing because what we find is when 546 00:21:08,919 --> 00:21:06,109 these areas when these different health 547 00:21:10,959 --> 00:21:08,929 bodies start reviewing homeopathy they 548 00:21:12,369 --> 00:21:10,969 recognize there is no good evidence for 549 00:21:14,739 --> 00:21:12,379 this to work there is they recognize 550 00:21:16,479 --> 00:21:14,749 there is no evidence basis previously I 551 00:21:19,209 --> 00:21:16,489 honestly think the reason that they 552 00:21:21,099 --> 00:21:19,219 funded it is because they've heard more 553 00:21:22,599 --> 00:21:21,109 from people who support it than they've 554 00:21:24,339 --> 00:21:22,609 heard from people who were support 555 00:21:26,979 --> 00:21:24,349 evidence-based medicine so they've found 556 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:26,989 it hard to sort of narrow down the calls 557 00:21:31,060 --> 00:21:29,450 from the patients who truly believe and 558 00:21:33,699 --> 00:21:31,070 they genuinely do believe yeah but this 559 00:21:35,079 --> 00:21:33,709 is the thing that treats them but what 560 00:21:36,849 --> 00:21:35,089 we've allowed to what this campaign is 561 00:21:39,339 --> 00:21:36,859 allowed us to do is to give an 562 00:21:41,529 --> 00:21:39,349 opposition voice so the doctors aren't 563 00:21:43,149 --> 00:21:41,539 just hearing from you know 4050 people 564 00:21:44,649 --> 00:21:43,159 who say this is the most important 565 00:21:45,969 --> 00:21:44,659 medicine for me but they're hearing from 566 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:45,979 people on the other side who say you 567 00:21:50,199 --> 00:21:47,570 need to spend this money on stuff that 568 00:21:51,849 --> 00:21:50,209 works because we don't have an infinite 569 00:21:54,099 --> 00:21:51,859 amount of money this is a very finite 570 00:21:56,589 --> 00:21:54,109 pot and you need to do the best job you 571 00:21:59,440 --> 00:21:56,599 can for for sick people in your area and 572 00:22:01,539 --> 00:21:59,450 that allows the doctors to to make a 573 00:22:03,549 --> 00:22:01,549 decision kind of based on their their 574 00:22:05,979 --> 00:22:03,559 their conscience their their medical 575 00:22:07,810 --> 00:22:05,989 expertise based on the evidence basis 576 00:22:09,849 --> 00:22:07,820 and by and large as best we can tell 577 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:09,859 there are very very few doctors who 578 00:22:13,509 --> 00:22:11,690 believe homeopathy works because the 579 00:22:16,089 --> 00:22:13,519 majority of them have a very very good 580 00:22:17,589 --> 00:22:16,099 at good medical education and the two 581 00:22:19,209 --> 00:22:17,599 don't necessarily always go in hand in 582 00:22:20,739 --> 00:22:19,219 hand is it's very hard to find people 583 00:22:21,789 --> 00:22:20,749 who've got a strong medical education 584 00:22:24,700 --> 00:22:21,799 who still believe homeopathy works 585 00:22:26,470 --> 00:22:24,710 absolutely and you've just hit the the 586 00:22:30,490 --> 00:22:26,480 word i was about to 587 00:22:32,770 --> 00:22:30,500 to say their education I think the more 588 00:22:36,750 --> 00:22:32,780 people are educated as to what exactly 589 00:22:40,360 --> 00:22:36,760 homeopathy is the more people will 590 00:22:42,610 --> 00:22:40,370 disregard it because you know a lot of 591 00:22:45,850 --> 00:22:42,620 people still think it's some sort of 592 00:22:49,060 --> 00:22:45,860 natural medicine or and it works on very 593 00:22:51,580 --> 00:22:49,070 small doses yeah absolutely and this 594 00:22:53,049 --> 00:22:51,590 goes back to pretty much the first thing 595 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:53,059 that I ever did as a skeptic or one of 596 00:22:57,039 --> 00:22:54,890 the first things I ever got involved in 597 00:22:59,500 --> 00:22:57,049 as a skeptic which is the 10 23 campaign 598 00:23:01,930 --> 00:22:59,510 which was designed to tackle exactly 599 00:23:03,970 --> 00:23:01,940 that point as that majority people do 600 00:23:05,919 --> 00:23:03,980 not know what homeopathy is or maybe 601 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:05,929 maybe these days maybe these days people 602 00:23:09,610 --> 00:23:07,610 do not you know maybe maybe that time 603 00:23:11,799 --> 00:23:09,620 has also turned it may be more people 604 00:23:13,539 --> 00:23:11,809 know what homeopathy is than they used 605 00:23:15,220 --> 00:23:13,549 to but certainly when I first got 606 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:15,230 involved in skepticism the majority 607 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:16,850 people least built 20 would think that 608 00:23:20,980 --> 00:23:18,770 homeopathy was herbal medicine on 609 00:23:24,669 --> 00:23:20,990 natural medicine and our big point was 610 00:23:27,190 --> 00:23:24,679 the biggest threat to homeopathy is an 611 00:23:28,750 --> 00:23:27,200 awareness of homeopathy the absolute 612 00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:28,760 number one threat to a belief in 613 00:23:33,100 --> 00:23:31,130 homeopathy is an understanding of 614 00:23:34,750 --> 00:23:33,110 homeopathy and that's all we were trying 615 00:23:37,110 --> 00:23:34,760 to spread with 10 23 when we run our 616 00:23:39,159 --> 00:23:37,120 series of international homeopathy 617 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:39,169 overdoses to demonstrate that these 618 00:23:43,030 --> 00:23:40,730 things are sugar pills and it's what 619 00:23:44,950 --> 00:23:43,040 we've been doing guiding our work not 620 00:23:47,110 --> 00:23:44,960 only as a volunteer my work with the 621 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:47,120 most I'd skeptic ciety but now the last 622 00:23:50,250 --> 00:23:48,770 two and a half years my work with good 623 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:50,260 thinking society is a full-time 624 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:52,970 skeptical activist that's been a kind of 625 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:54,290 a cornerstone of what we've been trying 626 00:23:57,789 --> 00:23:56,090 to do is to educate the public to 627 00:23:59,770 --> 00:23:57,799 demonstrate what hold me up at the is 628 00:24:01,840 --> 00:23:59,780 because even now you tell people or 629 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:01,850 people what homeopathy is and they look 630 00:24:05,530 --> 00:24:04,010 at you like you're making it up yeah 631 00:24:08,289 --> 00:24:05,540 they look at you like you're talking 632 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:08,299 absolute gibberish but yeah all you need 633 00:24:13,060 --> 00:24:10,850 to do is repeat to to your average 634 00:24:14,500 --> 00:24:13,070 person what a homeopath even would say 635 00:24:16,210 --> 00:24:14,510 homeopathy was if they were really 636 00:24:17,830 --> 00:24:16,220 pushed on it and they will they will 637 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:17,840 recognize that there is actually nothing 638 00:24:23,260 --> 00:24:20,690 in here to to believe I put your faith 639 00:24:24,669 --> 00:24:23,270 in well marsh I'm sure you'll be 640 00:24:26,620 --> 00:24:24,679 discussing many things including 641 00:24:30,310 --> 00:24:26,630 homeopathy yet the upcoming very 642 00:24:32,409 --> 00:24:30,320 exciting folks upcoming QED and oh I 643 00:24:34,890 --> 00:24:32,419 wish I was going to be there but if I 644 00:24:37,360 --> 00:24:34,900 was I think I'd be lost in the crowd 645 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:37,370 yeah it's gonna be huge this year we've 646 00:24:41,070 --> 00:24:39,610 got a 600 people or 647 00:24:43,049 --> 00:24:41,080 tending and then once you add in all 648 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:43,059 kind of speakers and panelists and 649 00:24:46,049 --> 00:24:44,410 everything like that it's going to be a 650 00:24:48,180 --> 00:24:46,059 huge huge number of people i think 651 00:24:50,850 --> 00:24:48,190 possibly the biggest skeptical 652 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:50,860 conference in europe if not currently in 653 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:52,090 the world i'm not quite sure how big are 654 00:24:55,610 --> 00:24:53,530 the ones are but certainly it's one of 655 00:24:58,260 --> 00:24:55,620 the biggest ones in the world new user 656 00:25:00,270 --> 00:24:58,270 amazing to think of where we were when 657 00:25:02,789 --> 00:25:00,280 we first started this in 2011 as a 658 00:25:06,120 --> 00:25:02,799 little idea that we had a couple hundred 659 00:25:07,980 --> 00:25:06,130 people along to complete amateurs like 660 00:25:09,860 --> 00:25:07,990 ourselves putting this on as volunteers 661 00:25:12,419 --> 00:25:09,870 and here we are still volunteers 662 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:12,429 organizing that the biggest QD we've 663 00:25:16,500 --> 00:25:14,890 ever had this year not only because 664 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:16,510 there's more people there than we've 665 00:25:23,370 --> 00:25:19,330 ever had but this year we normally run a 666 00:25:25,020 --> 00:25:23,380 mainstage room and we always run at a 667 00:25:26,490 --> 00:25:25,030 panel room at the same time so you get 668 00:25:28,919 --> 00:25:26,500 these kind of breakout sessions so you 669 00:25:31,169 --> 00:25:28,929 get a tough choices to which room you'll 670 00:25:32,310 --> 00:25:31,179 be in and it's hard to decide in any 671 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:32,320 given point whether you want to be in 672 00:25:35,669 --> 00:25:33,850 this room of the other and so to make 673 00:25:38,580 --> 00:25:35,679 that choice much easier this year we're 674 00:25:40,470 --> 00:25:38,590 running five different rooms at once to 675 00:25:42,980 --> 00:25:40,480 really reach you give people some some 676 00:25:46,470 --> 00:25:42,990 tricky choices yeah it's just gonna be a 677 00:25:49,909 --> 00:25:46,480 very busy weekend coming from all around 678 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:49,919 the world to join us so I'm very excited 679 00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:54,610 I'm wildly stressed and mildly terrified 680 00:25:58,169 --> 00:25:56,890 but it wouldn't be organizing a 681 00:26:00,150 --> 00:25:58,179 conference if you didn't feel all those 682 00:26:01,919 --> 00:26:00,160 all those stresses and strains and 683 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:01,929 things ahead of time but yeah I'm very 684 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:04,090 very enthusiastic about it oh I hear you 685 00:26:07,890 --> 00:26:05,770 Martian folks we're recording this 686 00:26:10,380 --> 00:26:07,900 interview a few days before QED although 687 00:26:14,669 --> 00:26:10,390 it's going out actually it's going out 688 00:26:17,310 --> 00:26:14,679 during QED if you're downloading this 689 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:17,320 and listening to us QED is sort of on 690 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:18,970 right now you've got many international 691 00:26:23,909 --> 00:26:22,090 guests appearing including our very own 692 00:26:27,450 --> 00:26:23,919 dr. Cole cruising iski and that's just 693 00:26:30,020 --> 00:26:27,460 fantastic yes absolutely yeah Carl very 694 00:26:32,730 --> 00:26:30,030 excited to have dr. Carl he's done some 695 00:26:36,270 --> 00:26:32,740 obvious he's got a fantastic BBC show 696 00:26:38,580 --> 00:26:36,280 that goes on nose up all night on on the 697 00:26:40,260 --> 00:26:38,590 beauty every all the time and that's a 698 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:40,270 great show and we're looking forward to 699 00:26:44,370 --> 00:26:42,730 his talk and he's doing a panel for us 700 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:44,380 on how to inspire kids to get into 701 00:26:47,310 --> 00:26:45,730 science and he's doing another panel 702 00:26:49,980 --> 00:26:47,320 where he'll just answer whatever 703 00:26:52,110 --> 00:26:49,990 question our audience throw at him and I 704 00:26:53,460 --> 00:26:52,120 will you what I think but I think that's 705 00:26:54,899 --> 00:26:53,470 that's the thing about QED 706 00:26:57,360 --> 00:26:54,909 and it was the same when you were there 707 00:26:59,340 --> 00:26:57,370 when you came over moment you've been on 708 00:27:01,649 --> 00:26:59,350 for Richard that people when they get to 709 00:27:03,870 --> 00:27:01,659 QED they they kind of want to be part of 710 00:27:05,789 --> 00:27:03,880 it and just do whatever it takes to make 711 00:27:07,649 --> 00:27:05,799 you d as good as possible i really like 712 00:27:09,360 --> 00:27:07,659 that kind of spirit that ethos of QED is 713 00:27:10,919 --> 00:27:09,370 that we have our speakers and they all 714 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:10,929 just want to sort pitch in and go well 715 00:27:17,279 --> 00:27:14,650 I'm here now what can I do where can I 716 00:27:18,419 --> 00:27:17,289 go what can you use before and just all 717 00:27:21,870 --> 00:27:18,429 kind of joining I think it kind of 718 00:27:24,510 --> 00:27:21,880 people seem to really buy into that that 719 00:27:26,549 --> 00:27:24,520 that volunteer all in it together all 720 00:27:28,529 --> 00:27:26,559 equal spirit I think and that's that's 721 00:27:31,049 --> 00:27:28,539 really what cutie is all about for us is 722 00:27:33,090 --> 00:27:31,059 that we've got 650 or whatever people 723 00:27:35,310 --> 00:27:33,100 there in a room and order in a hotel for 724 00:27:36,450 --> 00:27:35,320 weekend but we are all part of the same 725 00:27:38,549 --> 00:27:36,460 thing we're all part of one big 726 00:27:40,980 --> 00:27:38,559 community and that we're all there to 727 00:27:42,990 --> 00:27:40,990 kind of join together and support each 728 00:27:44,370 --> 00:27:43,000 other and find out how we can do things 729 00:27:47,250 --> 00:27:44,380 as well as possible with each other 730 00:27:50,159 --> 00:27:47,260 really it is and I certainly felt the 731 00:27:52,289 --> 00:27:50,169 same thing when i did my i was very 732 00:27:55,110 --> 00:27:52,299 lucky to make two appearances at QED two 733 00:27:58,049 --> 00:27:55,120 years running and i hope i shall make 734 00:28:02,399 --> 00:27:58,059 many more in the years ahead folks QED 735 00:28:03,870 --> 00:28:02,409 QED con dog although it's sort of 736 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:03,880 underway at the moment but you can still 737 00:28:09,120 --> 00:28:06,730 check it out but never fear folks in 738 00:28:10,919 --> 00:28:09,130 australia if you can't make QED oh by 739 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:10,929 the way our very own iran say give will 740 00:28:15,029 --> 00:28:12,850 be at QED to mush so it'll be something 741 00:28:16,649 --> 00:28:15,039 great and yes i'm looking forward to 742 00:28:18,210 --> 00:28:16,659 seeing around it's been a year since I a 743 00:28:19,470 --> 00:28:18,220 sore on some very much looking forward 744 00:28:21,570 --> 00:28:19,480 to seeing again it's always nice to have 745 00:28:23,130 --> 00:28:21,580 some representatives of the Australian 746 00:28:24,779 --> 00:28:23,140 contingent well I'm glad you feel that 747 00:28:28,710 --> 00:28:24,789 way because you'll be here soon enough 748 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:28,720 in fact in late November you will be you 749 00:28:33,779 --> 00:28:30,250 will be appearing at the Australian 750 00:28:35,130 --> 00:28:33,789 skeptics convention in Melbourne yes I 751 00:28:37,260 --> 00:28:35,140 can't wait I've never been to Melbourne 752 00:28:41,610 --> 00:28:37,270 before I was I was very very fortunate 753 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:41,620 to be graciously invited I mean to the 754 00:28:45,419 --> 00:28:42,970 Sydney convention a couple years ago I 755 00:28:47,159 --> 00:28:45,429 had a hugely enjoyable time there and I 756 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:47,169 went off to Brisbane to and I met some 757 00:28:49,799 --> 00:28:48,610 the Brisbane skeptics I really enjoyed 758 00:28:53,190 --> 00:28:49,809 it there so Melbourne is gonna be a 759 00:28:55,289 --> 00:28:53,200 another experience another city to add 760 00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:55,299 to the the list and I've heard only good 761 00:28:59,210 --> 00:28:57,250 things about it and yeah I'm hoping to 762 00:29:02,070 --> 00:28:59,220 meet lots of Australian skeptics and 763 00:29:04,049 --> 00:29:02,080 enjoy the Australian skeptics a kind of 764 00:29:05,700 --> 00:29:04,059 community while I merrily oh you will 765 00:29:07,110 --> 00:29:05,710 folks I and don't forget you can still 766 00:29:09,570 --> 00:29:07,120 get your tickets unlike 767 00:29:10,980 --> 00:29:09,580 QED which is all over now practically 768 00:29:14,070 --> 00:29:10,990 it's all over even so get your tickets 769 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:14,080 for the australian one convention dot 770 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:16,930 skeptics dot-com dot a you and that's in 771 00:29:20,730 --> 00:29:18,370 Melbourne on the twenty-fifth to the 772 00:29:23,970 --> 00:29:20,740 27th and November sounds good to me and 773 00:29:27,150 --> 00:29:23,980 for those folks in Sydney Marshall also 774 00:29:28,590 --> 00:29:27,160 be making appearance here after the 775 00:29:30,750 --> 00:29:28,600 convention but we'll get you more 776 00:29:33,570 --> 00:29:30,760 details about that when they come to 777 00:29:35,250 --> 00:29:33,580 hand well I better let you get back to 778 00:29:37,530 --> 00:29:35,260 it I'm sure you have more meetings to 779 00:29:41,070 --> 00:29:37,540 arrange and things to organize and I 780 00:29:43,140 --> 00:29:41,080 don't know transport to get people back 781 00:29:45,299 --> 00:29:43,150 and forth it's quite it's quite an 782 00:29:47,490 --> 00:29:45,309 adventure to organize a convention 783 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:47,500 having done a couple myself I can only 784 00:29:53,910 --> 00:29:51,370 wish you the best and but for now Marsh 785 00:29:57,270 --> 00:29:53,920 how can people get in touch and help you 786 00:29:58,980 --> 00:29:57,280 out well the best thing for people to do 787 00:30:00,720 --> 00:29:58,990 will be to got a good thinking start a 788 00:30:03,210 --> 00:30:00,730 dog and you can see all of our work 789 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:03,220 there but of course we are a charity and 790 00:30:07,380 --> 00:30:05,410 we are a charity that promotes good 791 00:30:09,990 --> 00:30:07,390 evidence based policy so hopefully we 792 00:30:12,270 --> 00:30:10,000 want to be be gotten rid of by the 793 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:12,280 cherry Commission's review but as you 794 00:30:14,790 --> 00:30:13,570 can imagine the work we've done with the 795 00:30:16,500 --> 00:30:14,800 charity commission the work we've done 796 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:16,510 with NHS homeopathy that's taken up 797 00:30:20,610 --> 00:30:18,370 quite a lot of time and quite above our 798 00:30:21,900 --> 00:30:20,620 our kind of our space in our resources 799 00:30:23,730 --> 00:30:21,910 and stuff like that so if anybody 800 00:30:26,010 --> 00:30:23,740 appreciates the work that we do and 801 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:26,020 thinks it should continue they can go to 802 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:28,210 good thinking son org forward slash 803 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:30,490 donut and even something like you know 804 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:32,530 three pounds or was that five dollars or 805 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:34,090 something which is the price of a cup of 806 00:30:37,650 --> 00:30:36,130 coffee among something like that makes a 807 00:30:38,940 --> 00:30:37,660 huge huge difference with such a small 808 00:30:40,950 --> 00:30:38,950 charity and we're hoping that we can 809 00:30:43,380 --> 00:30:40,960 continue for years to come and the more 810 00:30:45,270 --> 00:30:43,390 people that support us and say I believe 811 00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:45,280 this work should carry on the more 812 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:47,290 likelihood we have of existing in sort 813 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:48,610 of three four or five years time to 814 00:30:52,740 --> 00:30:50,530 carry on doing work really so yeah good 815 00:30:54,780 --> 00:30:52,750 thinking started already and I think for 816 00:30:58,350 --> 00:30:54,790 our international listeners and by that 817 00:31:01,500 --> 00:30:58,360 I mean listeners outside the UK I think 818 00:31:03,270 --> 00:31:01,510 your your euro or your Australian dollar 819 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:03,280 or your American dollar or you're 820 00:31:07,650 --> 00:31:05,290 canadian dollar go a lot further these 821 00:31:09,870 --> 00:31:07,660 days I think the pounds got baby true 822 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:09,880 hmm if there's one thing that Boris 823 00:31:14,220 --> 00:31:12,130 Johnson and Nigel Farage have done us a 824 00:31:16,169 --> 00:31:14,230 service on it means anybody outside the 825 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:16,179 UK who wants to fund our work and now do 826 00:31:20,970 --> 00:31:18,850 so with their pocket change you could 827 00:31:22,620 --> 00:31:20,980 basically secure my long-term few 828 00:31:25,710 --> 00:31:22,630 show with the change you got under bus 829 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:25,720 installing in this pause brexit world so 830 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:27,850 every cloud passer if not a silver 831 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:31,210 lining that at inlining i guess all 832 00:31:35,850 --> 00:31:33,490 right well for now marsh and all the 833 00:31:37,650 --> 00:31:35,860 best for QED coming up thank you very 834 00:31:57,299 --> 00:31:37,660 much chairs wretched always a pleasure 835 00:32:03,570 --> 00:32:01,860 hey Richard oh hi Trish Wow would you 836 00:32:05,279 --> 00:32:03,580 like a coffee yeah thanks what you're 837 00:32:07,470 --> 00:32:05,289 working on you're trying to come up with 838 00:32:10,739 --> 00:32:07,480 a new promo to play on the skeptic zone 839 00:32:12,539 --> 00:32:10,749 here's it for the good thinking society 840 00:32:15,090 --> 00:32:12,549 in the UK you know Michael Marshall 841 00:32:17,129 --> 00:32:15,100 Simon Singh Nora Thomas and background 842 00:32:18,690 --> 00:32:17,139 oh yeah I know them they've been doing 843 00:32:21,930 --> 00:32:18,700 some great work investigating veterinary 844 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:21,940 homeopathy vetri homeopathy what you 845 00:32:25,980 --> 00:32:24,610 sugarpill this for cows I know right and 846 00:32:27,629 --> 00:32:25,990 also they're looking at some of the 847 00:32:30,149 --> 00:32:27,639 dodgy medical advice given by UK 848 00:32:32,190 --> 00:32:30,159 chiropractors really okay look I'll 849 00:32:37,220 --> 00:32:32,200 mention all that in the promo now their 850 00:32:39,539 --> 00:32:37,230 website is good thinking society com and 851 00:32:41,310 --> 00:32:39,549 they've recently been reporting on the 852 00:32:43,950 --> 00:32:41,320 resurgence of faith healer peter Popoff 853 00:32:45,359 --> 00:32:43,960 Peter come on right okay look thanks to 854 00:33:00,190 --> 00:32:45,369 that it gives me something good to think 855 00:33:06,500 --> 00:33:03,430 now once again we find ourselves 856 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:06,510 visiting the site of a reasonable Hank 857 00:33:15,350 --> 00:33:12,210 at reasonable Hank calm the man who's 858 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:15,360 been looking into the online postings of 859 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:18,450 nurses and midwives you should know 860 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:21,450 better because they are some of them a 861 00:33:27,799 --> 00:33:24,330 very tiny minority of course our auntie 862 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:27,809 backs and they're not shy about it well 863 00:33:34,190 --> 00:33:30,090 thanks to people like reasonable Hank 864 00:33:37,370 --> 00:33:34,200 the nursing and midwifery Board of 865 00:33:40,190 --> 00:33:37,380 Australia has issued a position 866 00:33:42,769 --> 00:33:40,200 statement on anti-vaccine nurses and 867 00:33:46,100 --> 00:33:42,779 midwives as reported at a reasonable 868 00:33:47,990 --> 00:33:46,110 Hank on October the 11th 2016 the nurses 869 00:33:49,789 --> 00:33:48,000 and midwifery Board of Australia 870 00:33:52,220 --> 00:33:49,799 responded to a number of complaints 871 00:33:55,039 --> 00:33:52,230 regarding anti-vaccination material and 872 00:33:57,500 --> 00:33:55,049 advice being disseminated by registered 873 00:34:00,649 --> 00:33:57,510 nurses enrolled nurses and registered 874 00:34:02,659 --> 00:34:00,659 midwives by publishing a new position 875 00:34:05,450 --> 00:34:02,669 statement on anti-vaccination 876 00:34:07,519 --> 00:34:05,460 information Nursing and Midwifery Board 877 00:34:12,349 --> 00:34:07,529 of Australia position on nurses midwives 878 00:34:14,419 --> 00:34:12,359 and vaccination the nmba has become 879 00:34:17,030 --> 00:34:14,429 aware that there are a small number of 880 00:34:18,950 --> 00:34:17,040 registered nurses enroll nurses and 881 00:34:21,290 --> 00:34:18,960 midwives who are promoting 882 00:34:23,930 --> 00:34:21,300 anti-vaccination statements to parents 883 00:34:26,780 --> 00:34:23,940 and to the public via social media which 884 00:34:29,690 --> 00:34:26,790 contradict the best available scientific 885 00:34:32,990 --> 00:34:29,700 evidence the nmba is taking this 886 00:34:35,210 --> 00:34:33,000 opportunity to make its expectations 887 00:34:37,849 --> 00:34:35,220 about providing advice on vaccinations 888 00:34:42,230 --> 00:34:37,859 clear to registered nurses enrolled 889 00:34:43,639 --> 00:34:42,240 nurses and midwives the nmba recognizes 890 00:34:46,579 --> 00:34:43,649 the Australian national immunization 891 00:34:48,530 --> 00:34:46,589 handbook 10th edition as providing 892 00:34:50,659 --> 00:34:48,540 evidence based advice to health 893 00:34:54,050 --> 00:34:50,669 professionals about the safe and 894 00:34:55,700 --> 00:34:54,060 effective use of vaccines and the public 895 00:34:59,100 --> 00:34:55,710 health benefits associated with 896 00:35:01,500 --> 00:34:59,110 vaccination the nmba supports the 897 00:35:03,570 --> 00:35:01,510 the handbook by registered nurses 898 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:03,580 enrolled nurses and midwives who are 899 00:35:08,370 --> 00:35:05,890 giving vaccines the handbook is 900 00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:08,380 available from the immunized Australia 901 00:35:14,460 --> 00:35:11,890 Program website the nmba expects all 902 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:14,470 registered nurses enrolled nurses and 903 00:35:19,530 --> 00:35:16,450 midwives to use the best available 904 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:19,540 evidence in making practice decisions 905 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:22,210 this includes providing information to 906 00:35:26,730 --> 00:35:24,130 the public about public health issues 907 00:35:29,940 --> 00:35:26,740 all registered nurses enrolled nurses 908 00:35:31,890 --> 00:35:29,950 and midwives are required to practice in 909 00:35:34,650 --> 00:35:31,900 accordance with professional standards 910 00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:34,660 set by the nmba including the codes of 911 00:35:39,750 --> 00:35:36,570 conduct codes of ethics and the 912 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:39,760 standards for practice in particular the 913 00:35:44,790 --> 00:35:42,970 social media policy and the guidelines 914 00:35:48,390 --> 00:35:44,800 for advertising regulated health 915 00:35:51,210 --> 00:35:48,400 services what should I do if I notice a 916 00:35:53,700 --> 00:35:51,220 nurse or midwife is promoting 917 00:35:56,310 --> 00:35:53,710 anti-vaccination material if you have 918 00:36:01,170 --> 00:35:56,320 concerns about a nurse or a midwife you 919 00:36:04,380 --> 00:36:01,180 can make a complaint to the ahpra the 920 00:36:06,990 --> 00:36:04,390 nmba will consider whether the nurse or 921 00:36:09,390 --> 00:36:07,000 midwife has breached their professional 922 00:36:12,420 --> 00:36:09,400 obligations and will treat these matters 923 00:36:15,570 --> 00:36:12,430 seriously any published anti-vaccination 924 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:15,580 material and or advice which is false 925 00:36:19,740 --> 00:36:18,010 misleading or deceptive which is being 926 00:36:22,380 --> 00:36:19,750 distributed by a registered nurse 927 00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:22,390 enrolled nurse or midwife including via 928 00:36:28,290 --> 00:36:25,450 social media may also contribute to a 929 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:28,300 summary offence under the national law 930 00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:31,210 and could result in prosecution by the 931 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:36,130 ahp are a pretty strong stuff I'm sure 932 00:36:41,340 --> 00:36:39,010 you'll agree and we wonder whether this 933 00:36:43,740 --> 00:36:41,350 will this message will sink into the 934 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:43,750 staunch anti-vaccination midwives and 935 00:36:51,390 --> 00:36:47,890 nurses out there who we again stress are 936 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:51,400 a tiny minority a tiny minority well 937 00:36:55,620 --> 00:36:53,170 done again reasonable Hank for helping 938 00:36:58,110 --> 00:36:55,630 to bring this situation to our attention 939 00:37:15,380 --> 00:36:58,120 and I will add a link in this week's 940 00:37:21,390 --> 00:37:18,240 the skeptic magazine the journal from 941 00:37:23,580 --> 00:37:21,400 Australian skeptics subscribe online to 942 00:37:28,890 --> 00:37:23,590 the world's second oldest skeptical 943 00:37:31,650 --> 00:37:28,900 magazine visit w WC apx com au and click 944 00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:31,660 the publication's league you can also 945 00:37:38,940 --> 00:37:35,650 find their over 30 years on back issues 946 00:37:52,910 --> 00:37:38,950 free to download the skeptic magazine 947 00:38:00,070 --> 00:37:52,920 from Australian skeptics here's may not 948 00:38:05,180 --> 00:38:03,350 yes tonight it's dr. Ben Goldacre live 949 00:38:06,770 --> 00:38:05,190 on stage here at the enmore theatre 950 00:38:09,170 --> 00:38:06,780 he'll be doing all these big hits like 951 00:38:11,330 --> 00:38:09,180 oh you know I don't know lots of things 952 00:38:13,490 --> 00:38:11,340 like don't trust big pharma sometimes do 953 00:38:15,470 --> 00:38:13,500 sometimes don't you'll be doing I think 954 00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:15,480 he does a relationship advice as well 955 00:38:19,490 --> 00:38:18,090 and he even got sexual dysfunction he 956 00:38:21,890 --> 00:38:19,500 does it all he's a doctor after all I 957 00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:21,900 mean it the doctor is in tonight here at 958 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:24,210 the enmore theatre look we're out the 959 00:38:27,770 --> 00:38:26,130 foyer everyone's talking big farmer 960 00:38:29,870 --> 00:38:27,780 everyone's talking big drinking Evans 961 00:38:31,850 --> 00:38:29,880 talking big red wine and I hit with 962 00:38:34,070 --> 00:38:31,860 Robin Williams how are you Robin not 963 00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:34,080 very bad my class is very small actually 964 00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:35,610 it's very worried yeah look there's 965 00:38:39,980 --> 00:38:37,050 something special about theatre and 966 00:38:41,660 --> 00:38:39,990 plastic wine drinking be kissing do I 967 00:38:43,910 --> 00:38:41,670 blame the government it all look well I 968 00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:43,920 really i did on the way here I same time 969 00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:46,050 how're things at the ABC in the science 970 00:38:51,220 --> 00:38:48,570 department shall we say mixed the 971 00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:51,230 programs are fantastically well received 972 00:38:57,620 --> 00:38:54,210 my colleagues right across the board dr. 973 00:38:59,600 --> 00:38:57,630 Carl of course yeah Bernie Hobbs the 974 00:39:03,140 --> 00:38:59,610 people from catalyst one of whom is next 975 00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:03,150 to me right now Jonica newbie and the 976 00:39:08,210 --> 00:39:05,810 television stuff as well as the sps 977 00:39:09,950 --> 00:39:08,220 science programs actually how would you 978 00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:09,960 describe the state of science reporting 979 00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:11,850 in Australia at the moment I mean when 980 00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:13,170 the telly writes something it's always a 981 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:15,690 bit more strange but it's a generally 982 00:39:19,870 --> 00:39:17,930 better than it's been 983 00:39:21,670 --> 00:39:19,880 as far as getting things right not just 984 00:39:24,700 --> 00:39:21,680 throwing a big headline like can secure 985 00:39:27,339 --> 00:39:24,710 it I don't count the telegraph in Sydney 986 00:39:29,549 --> 00:39:27,349 as a newspaper that's true it's a loud 987 00:39:33,069 --> 00:39:29,559 comic as some of the things they do are 988 00:39:35,290 --> 00:39:33,079 beyond belief however the people from 989 00:39:38,260 --> 00:39:35,300 Fairfax are good John Ross from the 990 00:39:41,980 --> 00:39:38,270 Australian newspaper is bloody good and 991 00:39:46,030 --> 00:39:41,990 i must say that in the ABC is quite good 992 00:39:49,720 --> 00:39:46,040 but as a species well i know how the 993 00:39:51,339 --> 00:39:49,730 dodo felt yes and is it still normal for 994 00:39:53,109 --> 00:39:51,349 people to be the Science reporter and 995 00:39:54,910 --> 00:39:53,119 the coal reporter or the theater 996 00:39:56,950 --> 00:39:54,920 reviewer is it is it still a specialized 997 00:39:59,410 --> 00:39:56,960 beat in this country no it's not quite 998 00:40:01,990 --> 00:39:59,420 so much like that but Jonathan newbie 999 00:40:04,599 --> 00:40:02,000 who's next to me as I speak as i said in 1000 00:40:07,510 --> 00:40:04,609 television normally you used to have a 1001 00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:07,520 job was the TV producer okay she does 1002 00:40:13,750 --> 00:40:10,130 that and the TV director she's done that 1003 00:40:16,690 --> 00:40:13,760 as well and the TV reporter guess what 1004 00:40:20,220 --> 00:40:16,700 and the fourth job she does she has her 1005 00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:20,230 own camera so for jobs for the price 1006 00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:24,170 reduced of one that's what we do we I 1007 00:40:29,319 --> 00:40:26,650 think a seven day week is a kind of norm 1008 00:40:31,660 --> 00:40:29,329 and are you excited about seeing Ben 1009 00:40:33,730 --> 00:40:31,670 Goldacre he'll help how much does his 1010 00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:33,740 Venn diagram and yours mixed together as 1011 00:40:38,410 --> 00:40:36,170 far as what you think about pharmacy and 1012 00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:38,420 and a big farm and their tests that they 1013 00:40:41,650 --> 00:40:40,130 do and sometimes they fund stuff well 1014 00:40:44,349 --> 00:40:41,660 you know about my declaring an interest 1015 00:40:45,670 --> 00:40:44,359 to you I no no no what what you're on 1016 00:40:49,540 --> 00:40:45,680 drugs right now 1017 00:40:52,210 --> 00:40:49,550 not quite oh no no yo no I'm afraid I'm 1018 00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:52,220 not wearing mine he's my nephew oh okay 1019 00:40:56,350 --> 00:40:54,770 so that means you can Hickel him I can 1020 00:40:59,470 --> 00:40:56,360 indeed in fact we spent the afternoon 1021 00:41:03,670 --> 00:40:59,480 together and in Oxford a couple of weeks 1022 00:41:07,060 --> 00:41:03,680 ago I was with him at home and I can 1023 00:41:10,300 --> 00:41:07,070 train a certain responsibility for Ben's 1024 00:41:16,330 --> 00:41:10,310 existence because I came to Australia 1025 00:41:20,410 --> 00:41:16,340 when I was 20 I married Camelot and I 1026 00:41:22,740 --> 00:41:20,420 then helped introduce camelus sister to 1027 00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:22,750 Michael Goldacre my oldest friend 1028 00:41:29,230 --> 00:41:26,450 therefore been exists so he does owe you 1029 00:41:31,590 --> 00:41:29,240 one he has a visual one he owes me a big 1030 00:41:34,090 --> 00:41:31,600 one and he knows it I keep telling him 1031 00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:34,100 what the thing we should be wary of when 1032 00:41:38,260 --> 00:41:36,410 it comes to pharmacy trials that we most 1033 00:41:39,580 --> 00:41:38,270 of us don't understand I'm sure even new 1034 00:41:42,010 --> 00:41:39,590 colors and a few of them when you read 1035 00:41:43,870 --> 00:41:42,020 them I wouldn't even attempt I leave it 1036 00:41:46,930 --> 00:41:43,880 to Norman Swan and Ben Goldacre to tell 1037 00:41:49,150 --> 00:41:46,940 me how it's done and I think his 1038 00:41:51,850 --> 00:41:49,160 initiative at the moment which is to 1039 00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:51,860 track these drug trials as they 1040 00:41:59,200 --> 00:41:55,610 published and to deconstruct them almost 1041 00:42:00,790 --> 00:41:59,210 immediately online so that their 1042 00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:00,800 publishing online so you know 1043 00:42:07,570 --> 00:42:04,130 immediately whether the drug trial has 1044 00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:07,580 got holes in it and that really is going 1045 00:42:13,750 --> 00:42:11,210 to be like a open source stuff 1046 00:42:17,589 --> 00:42:13,760 a complete change in the standard we 1047 00:42:19,510 --> 00:42:17,599 hope that the book has shown so many of 1048 00:42:20,829 --> 00:42:19,520 the drug trials were kind of well we'll 1049 00:42:25,599 --> 00:42:20,839 forget the naughty ones it didn't quite 1050 00:42:27,490 --> 00:42:25,609 work and we'll celebrate what seems to 1051 00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:27,500 back us up I'm not saying they're all 1052 00:42:30,940 --> 00:42:29,810 like that but quite a few work and you 1053 00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:30,950 only need to get one or two and 1054 00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:32,690 everyone's tainted 1055 00:42:36,940 --> 00:42:35,810 it's a problem yeah so look you have fun 1056 00:42:38,829 --> 00:42:36,950 in there and because you know him you 1057 00:42:40,030 --> 00:42:38,839 can just talk you can walk out and drink 1058 00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:40,040 at the toilet what if you like you can 1059 00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:41,450 be very casual evening for you there 1060 00:42:45,069 --> 00:42:43,490 look at my level you send other people 1061 00:42:46,750 --> 00:42:45,079 to get the toilet for you not as food 1062 00:42:48,130 --> 00:42:46,760 look and thank you very few time and 1063 00:42:50,770 --> 00:42:48,140 look thank you for all your years on the 1064 00:42:52,359 --> 00:42:50,780 science show ghost I had the record when 1065 00:42:55,300 --> 00:42:52,369 Fred wasn't Fred Dagg on the science 1066 00:42:58,990 --> 00:42:55,310 show back in the day I introduced him in 1067 00:43:00,309 --> 00:42:59,000 nineteen seventy three or four wasn't i 1068 00:43:02,829 --> 00:43:00,319 think it was remember this homicide 1069 00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:02,839 listen to the show yeah he was a 1070 00:43:07,150 --> 00:43:04,970 wonderful discovering is still a mate 1071 00:43:09,150 --> 00:43:07,160 and he did a wonderful performance for 1072 00:43:11,470 --> 00:43:09,160 the 40th anniversary of the science show 1073 00:43:12,910 --> 00:43:11,480 absolutely brilliant and i'm very glad 1074 00:43:14,650 --> 00:43:12,920 that the fraser government didn't scare 1075 00:43:16,720 --> 00:43:14,660 you off science broadcasting thinks i'm 1076 00:43:20,170 --> 00:43:16,730 back and keep publishing the skeptic 1077 00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:20,180 wonderful magazine mana cost the host 1078 00:43:23,109 --> 00:43:21,650 himself the man who's got it all going 1079 00:43:25,150 --> 00:43:23,119 on when it comes to good medicine bad 1080 00:43:27,490 --> 00:43:25,160 medicine and even in different medicine 1081 00:43:29,319 --> 00:43:27,500 its Richard Saunders it's an odd thing 1082 00:43:30,670 --> 00:43:29,329 to be interviewed on your own podcast oh 1083 00:43:32,859 --> 00:43:30,680 yeah but it saves you holding the 1084 00:43:35,150 --> 00:43:32,869 microphone you get to edit it thank you 1085 00:43:36,890 --> 00:43:35,160 mean I yeah so when I go 1086 00:43:38,390 --> 00:43:36,900 you have to cut that bit out I'll cut 1087 00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:38,400 over it out that won't go to where no no 1088 00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:40,530 it's a little bit big skeptical night 1089 00:43:44,690 --> 00:43:43,050 tonight a lot of people are it's um I 1090 00:43:47,330 --> 00:43:44,700 wouldn't I wouldn't wouldn't go as far 1091 00:43:49,670 --> 00:43:47,340 to say it's a religious experience but 1092 00:43:51,740 --> 00:43:49,680 there is a confirmation going on for 1093 00:43:53,870 --> 00:43:51,750 people to see Ben Goldacre tonight there 1094 00:43:55,460 --> 00:43:53,880 is what a look at this crowd it's it's 1095 00:43:57,380 --> 00:43:55,470 really big and people are flooding in 1096 00:43:59,000 --> 00:43:57,390 through the doors at the moment we're 1097 00:44:00,800 --> 00:43:59,010 pleased to be here we've met some good 1098 00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:00,810 friends just tonight there's Robin 1099 00:44:05,030 --> 00:44:02,490 Williams over there who you were 1100 00:44:06,830 --> 00:44:05,040 chatting to good smattering of people 1101 00:44:09,650 --> 00:44:06,840 from Australian skeptics the hoodoo 1102 00:44:11,420 --> 00:44:09,660 gurus aren't here I thought I saw them 1103 00:44:13,130 --> 00:44:11,430 out the door there was no one from the 1104 00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:13,140 dynamic it not expanded from that 1105 00:44:17,030 --> 00:44:15,210 everyone else and put our dr. Paul 1106 00:44:19,010 --> 00:44:17,040 Willis's here you just have to sort of 1107 00:44:22,370 --> 00:44:19,020 find him axel he's in the wine bar next 1108 00:44:23,990 --> 00:44:22,380 door going into the bottom fridge thats 1109 00:44:25,190 --> 00:44:24,000 Sarah you know but it's a great night 1110 00:44:27,380 --> 00:44:25,200 it's really great that thinking have 1111 00:44:29,450 --> 00:44:27,390 brought out Ben Goldacre and I think 1112 00:44:31,730 --> 00:44:29,460 he's have a successful tour so far and 1113 00:44:37,850 --> 00:44:31,740 this is the grand finale in fact and 1114 00:44:41,150 --> 00:44:37,860 whose support forum Howard Jones no Kim 1115 00:44:42,620 --> 00:44:41,160 high honor movie 43 well obviously what 1116 00:44:44,849 --> 00:44:42,630 the support is it better be good it 1117 00:44:46,599 --> 00:44:44,859 better be good 1118 00:44:48,819 --> 00:44:46,609 now you're heard Robin Williams 1119 00:44:50,079 --> 00:44:48,829 mentioned signs reporting on SBS earlier 1120 00:44:52,839 --> 00:44:50,089 here's one of the people that does it 1121 00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:52,849 hello I haven't you may know we got here 1122 00:44:56,789 --> 00:44:54,890 again oh well my name is Sigma Dean and 1123 00:44:59,380 --> 00:44:56,799 I'm the editor of SB a science online 1124 00:45:01,180 --> 00:44:59,390 tough gig sometimes there's no very 1125 00:45:03,099 --> 00:45:01,190 tough because online publishing right 1126 00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:03,109 now is a very tough business there's a 1127 00:45:06,910 --> 00:45:05,210 lot going on how would you describe I 1128 00:45:08,319 --> 00:45:06,920 asked Robin earlier the state of science 1129 00:45:10,059 --> 00:45:08,329 reporting in Australia is it got any 1130 00:45:13,329 --> 00:45:10,069 better is it the same or are people 1131 00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:13,339 still getting spelling mistakes well I 1132 00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:15,170 think people are getting more spelling 1133 00:45:20,170 --> 00:45:16,970 mistakes because all the saboteurs have 1134 00:45:22,539 --> 00:45:20,180 been exact pretty much but I think it 1135 00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:22,549 does a quality of reporting it's not 1136 00:45:26,349 --> 00:45:24,890 that bad there are plenty of really good 1137 00:45:28,420 --> 00:45:26,359 science journalists who really care 1138 00:45:30,329 --> 00:45:28,430 about their craft and I think they're 1139 00:45:33,130 --> 00:45:30,339 doing an excellent job so there's 1140 00:45:36,220 --> 00:45:33,140 there's plenty there's plenty of good 1141 00:45:38,799 --> 00:45:36,230 writing every year you see the unis w 1142 00:45:41,109 --> 00:45:38,809 rach science writing prize if we can put 1143 00:45:42,670 --> 00:45:41,119 a whole mythology together or the best 1144 00:45:44,710 --> 00:45:42,680 science writing and that's not even 1145 00:45:46,390 --> 00:45:44,720 everything that people are writing in 1146 00:45:48,609 --> 00:45:46,400 the country i think we're doing alright 1147 00:45:49,930 --> 00:45:48,619 most journalists have got a story in 1148 00:45:51,430 --> 00:45:49,940 their bottom drawing you might not want 1149 00:45:52,989 --> 00:45:51,440 to give it away but what's the one 1150 00:45:54,670 --> 00:45:52,999 science story that you wanted to do a 1151 00:45:56,289 --> 00:45:54,680 wonder chase and just haven't been able 1152 00:45:58,030 --> 00:45:56,299 to because of time restraints or it's 1153 00:45:59,740 --> 00:45:58,040 just very difficult 1154 00:46:01,500 --> 00:45:59,750 that's an interesting question right now 1155 00:46:04,780 --> 00:46:01,510 I've been plugged into the very 1156 00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:04,790 short-term quick science news turn 1157 00:46:10,180 --> 00:46:08,450 around kind of situation so I think the 1158 00:46:12,130 --> 00:46:10,190 low-hanging fruit and often that can be 1159 00:46:13,450 --> 00:46:12,140 controversial stuff too I remember the 1160 00:46:15,850 --> 00:46:13,460 whole thing about the Vegemite you did 1161 00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:15,860 that was very important what I really 1162 00:46:19,090 --> 00:46:17,450 like doing is part of my job which 1163 00:46:20,500 --> 00:46:19,100 sometimes takes more time and I'm not 1164 00:46:23,650 --> 00:46:20,510 always able to do it as much as I would 1165 00:46:25,780 --> 00:46:23,660 like more timeless type explainers so I 1166 00:46:27,250 --> 00:46:25,790 recently wrote one about why you 1167 00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:27,260 shouldn't be worried about fluoride in 1168 00:46:32,130 --> 00:46:29,770 the water previously have done one on 1169 00:46:34,420 --> 00:46:32,140 nanoparticles and sunscreens and 1170 00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:34,430 basically topics like that which means 1171 00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:36,770 that you get to do an article that 1172 00:46:39,730 --> 00:46:38,690 people can return to over and over and 1173 00:46:42,430 --> 00:46:39,740 they can share it with their friends 1174 00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:42,440 when they say something like oh I heard 1175 00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:43,970 the sunscreens bad for me and you're 1176 00:46:47,410 --> 00:46:45,290 like well here's an article on there's 1177 00:46:49,500 --> 00:46:47,420 be a size that shows that maybe it's not 1178 00:46:51,700 --> 00:46:49,510 that bad so do you think Ben is 1179 00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:51,710 contributing if it this dr. Ben Goldacre 1180 00:46:55,750 --> 00:46:53,690 by making people be suspicious of big 1181 00:46:58,420 --> 00:46:55,760 farmer and a lot of them are already so 1182 00:46:59,830 --> 00:46:58,430 we don't think is sometimes he's it's a 1183 00:47:02,200 --> 00:46:59,840 double-edged sword what he's doing oh 1184 00:47:06,130 --> 00:47:02,210 absolutely but I think what he's doing 1185 00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:06,140 is incredibly valuable because you have 1186 00:47:09,490 --> 00:47:08,090 to be suspicious to the Big Pharma you 1187 00:47:10,750 --> 00:47:09,500 can't just say that you know there's the 1188 00:47:12,460 --> 00:47:10,760 extreme left then there's the extreme 1189 00:47:13,609 --> 00:47:12,470 right and we're all so special with 1190 00:47:15,980 --> 00:47:13,619 different things and 1191 00:47:17,839 --> 00:47:15,990 it's important to remember that even if 1192 00:47:19,849 --> 00:47:17,849 there are some people who are charlatans 1193 00:47:22,279 --> 00:47:19,859 and who are trying to scare people with 1194 00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:22,289 their alternative cancer cures there are 1195 00:47:27,859 --> 00:47:25,890 also people who do have vested interest 1196 00:47:29,180 --> 00:47:27,869 in the big business and they make 1197 00:47:30,799 --> 00:47:29,190 mistakes as well so it's extremely 1198 00:47:33,049 --> 00:47:30,809 important to call them out and to 1199 00:47:36,289 --> 00:47:33,059 remember that evidence-based medicine 1200 00:47:38,089 --> 00:47:36,299 can be done well can be done poorly and 1201 00:47:39,739 --> 00:47:38,099 can always be done better and I think 1202 00:47:42,980 --> 00:47:39,749 that's what he's doing and its really 1203 00:47:44,299 --> 00:47:42,990 admirable work and very hard as well and 1204 00:47:47,599 --> 00:47:44,309 where can we catch your science writing 1205 00:47:51,499 --> 00:47:47,609 online it's okay so basically you go to 1206 00:47:53,359 --> 00:47:51,509 SB s.com today you / science and you can 1207 00:47:55,700 --> 00:47:53,369 also find us on Facebook and Twitter 1208 00:47:57,319 --> 00:47:55,710 just searching for us be a science they 1209 00:48:09,199 --> 00:47:57,329 will enjoy your time at dr. go like it 1210 00:48:25,499 --> 00:48:23,519 on Maynard condo you hey you as we are 1211 00:48:26,849 --> 00:48:25,509 at the floor the totally 80s show hear 1212 00:48:28,620 --> 00:48:26,859 it and more people are going nuts people 1213 00:48:30,659 --> 00:48:28,630 going crazy everybody wants to know how 1214 00:48:33,150 --> 00:48:30,669 does Lamar Gettys here to do that people 1215 00:48:37,319 --> 00:48:33,160 behind how good a time did you hack it's 1216 00:48:40,169 --> 00:48:37,329 friggin awesome may I say something no 1217 00:48:42,299 --> 00:48:40,179 man shush me who's just you I mean in 1218 00:48:44,729 --> 00:48:42,309 the crowd just me a man in the crowd 1219 00:48:46,499 --> 00:48:44,739 Schuester I can never imagine anyone 1220 00:48:49,289 --> 00:48:46,509 doing that teeth why would they do that 1221 00:48:50,669 --> 00:48:49,299 to you I can't understand that with 1222 00:48:52,709 --> 00:48:50,679 Dave's Terry real life how Dave how are 1223 00:48:54,269 --> 00:48:52,719 you I'm very well thank you after the 1224 00:48:55,859 --> 00:48:54,279 Sydney shall i actually just shook for 1225 00:48:57,689 --> 00:48:55,869 three minutes i just stood there shaking 1226 00:48:59,759 --> 00:48:57,699 it was just overwhelming for me as well 1227 00:49:01,559 --> 00:48:59,769 because i'm introducing every artist on 1228 00:49:03,479 --> 00:49:01,569 and off i get to see you all as you're 1229 00:49:04,499 --> 00:49:03,489 working walking off stage and i think 1230 00:49:06,089 --> 00:49:04,509 i'm going to called you back for a bow 1231 00:49:07,349 --> 00:49:06,099 in sydney i think to which i think it's 1232 00:49:08,969 --> 00:49:07,359 a nice thing to do particularly the 1233 00:49:11,549 --> 00:49:08,979 short set I like bowing it's much easier 1234 00:49:13,409 --> 00:49:11,559 than singing I think the horse was 1235 00:49:14,909 --> 00:49:13,419 famous to the horse did something to one 1236 00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:14,919 the Melbourne Cup is something like that 1237 00:49:42,970 --> 00:49:39,040 thank you for listening to the skeptic 1238 00:49:44,349 --> 00:49:42,980 zone podcast this week now don't forget 1239 00:49:47,349 --> 00:49:44,359 though those people in Australia 1240 00:49:49,270 --> 00:49:47,359 particularly if you're in Melbourne you 1241 00:49:51,340 --> 00:49:49,280 can still get your tickets for the 1242 00:49:54,250 --> 00:49:51,350 Australian skeptics National Convention 1243 00:49:57,370 --> 00:49:54,260 for more information visit convention 1244 00:49:59,770 --> 00:49:57,380 skeptics calm today you and I notice and 1245 00:50:03,880 --> 00:49:59,780 I notice how very accomplished report 1246 00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:03,890 and Joe alabasta is on the bill so if 1247 00:50:07,420 --> 00:50:05,330 you're going along to the convention 1248 00:50:09,550 --> 00:50:07,430 please say hello to Joe she's been 1249 00:50:11,500 --> 00:50:09,560 having a little bit of a sabbatical from 1250 00:50:14,260 --> 00:50:11,510 the skeptic zone lately which is fine 1251 00:50:17,260 --> 00:50:14,270 everybody needs a break but it's good to 1252 00:50:20,020 --> 00:50:17,270 see that Joe will be there speaking to 1253 00:50:22,900 --> 00:50:20,030 the skeptics convention and that 1254 00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:22,910 convention of course is the 25th to the 1255 00:50:28,300 --> 00:50:25,850 27th of art november in melbourne yes 1256 00:50:30,670 --> 00:50:28,310 convention skeptics calm today you for 1257 00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:30,680 more information and to snap up those 1258 00:50:35,710 --> 00:50:33,290 tickets and I think if still the time if 1259 00:50:38,620 --> 00:50:35,720 you're in the states to grab your 1260 00:50:42,790 --> 00:50:38,630 tickets for psych on which is October 1261 00:50:46,060 --> 00:50:42,800 the 27th to the 30th in Las Vegas or 1262 00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:46,070 sadly of course tam is no more but it 1263 00:50:50,890 --> 00:50:49,130 appears that the psych on will be every 1264 00:50:53,410 --> 00:50:50,900 bit as good with lots of speakers you're 1265 00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:53,420 familiar with including James the 1266 00:50:59,890 --> 00:50:56,450 amazing Randi for more information sigh 1267 00:51:02,620 --> 00:50:59,900 conference not org and I'll will will 1268 00:51:04,450 --> 00:51:02,630 link to that in the show notes but as 1269 00:51:07,330 --> 00:51:04,460 far as are skeptical meetings it just 1270 00:51:08,770 --> 00:51:07,340 gets better because the New Zealand 1271 00:51:10,990 --> 00:51:08,780 skeptics are having their conference 1272 00:51:14,859 --> 00:51:11,000 from the second to the fourth of 1273 00:51:17,050 --> 00:51:14,869 December in beautiful Queenstown and I'm 1274 00:51:18,670 --> 00:51:17,060 lucky enough to be one of the invited 1275 00:51:20,980 --> 00:51:18,680 speakers I think we'll have more 1276 00:51:22,630 --> 00:51:20,990 information about this convention 1277 00:51:24,190 --> 00:51:22,640 probably on next week's show i'll see if 1278 00:51:26,650 --> 00:51:24,200 i can line up an interview of one of the 1279 00:51:28,420 --> 00:51:26,660 organizers but for now if you're in New 1280 00:51:32,530 --> 00:51:28,430 Zealand make the effort to come along 1281 00:51:34,690 --> 00:51:32,540 conference dot skeptics dot n Z is the 1282 00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:34,700 website to look out for I'll be bringing 1283 00:51:39,849 --> 00:51:36,650 a bag of tricks including some divining 1284 00:51:42,370 --> 00:51:39,859 rods I think I'll probably talk about 1285 00:51:44,500 --> 00:51:42,380 psychics and psychic power and where are 1286 00:51:46,540 --> 00:51:44,510 the normal stuff you know that the sort 1287 00:51:47,740 --> 00:51:46,550 of stuff I would talk about and that 1288 00:51:52,150 --> 00:51:47,750 website once more is 1289 00:51:54,580 --> 00:51:52,160 conference skeptics dot n Z what a busy 1290 00:51:58,840 --> 00:51:54,590 time for skeptics it is in the latter 1291 00:52:01,570 --> 00:51:58,850 half of 20 16 2016 has had its ups and 1292 00:52:04,330 --> 00:52:01,580 downs believe me it really has but let's 1293 00:52:08,470 --> 00:52:04,340 see if we can sort of wind it up slowly 1294 00:52:10,810 --> 00:52:08,480 on a on a more positive note oh and if 1295 00:52:13,450 --> 00:52:10,820 you want to have a look at something 1296 00:52:16,690 --> 00:52:13,460 that we are investigating at the moment 1297 00:52:23,260 --> 00:52:16,700 why don't you google aqua poll and 1298 00:52:25,660 --> 00:52:23,270 that's built a qu AP 0 l and i'll just 1299 00:52:26,980 --> 00:52:25,670 leave that there and just before we 1300 00:52:30,130 --> 00:52:26,990 switch off the microphone thank you 1301 00:52:31,750 --> 00:52:30,140 again to those very kind people who 1302 00:52:35,170 --> 00:52:31,760 contribute to the skeptic zone via 1303 00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:35,180 paypal or via patreon and you can do 1304 00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:39,650 both of those at skeptic zone TV some 1305 00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:41,450 people chip in a dollar a week some 1306 00:52:46,710 --> 00:52:43,130 people chip in five dollars a week at 1307 00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:46,720 varying amounts and every every cent 1308 00:52:52,060 --> 00:52:50,210 helps me produce the skeptic zone and i 1309 00:52:54,430 --> 00:52:52,070 really appreciate it and i'm sure all 1310 00:52:56,740 --> 00:52:54,440 the reporters really appreciate it too 1311 00:52:59,560 --> 00:52:56,750 because it's because of people like you 1312 00:53:02,230 --> 00:52:59,570 that thousands and thousands of other 1313 00:53:04,780 --> 00:53:02,240 people all around the world continue 1314 00:53:06,780 --> 00:53:04,790 hopefully i certainly hope so continue 1315 00:53:09,700 --> 00:53:06,790 to enjoyed the skeptic zone and get 1316 00:53:12,180 --> 00:53:09,710 beneficial information and I do like 1317 00:53:15,310 --> 00:53:12,190 getting those letters from people 1318 00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:15,320 long-distance truck drivers and then the 1319 00:53:20,050 --> 00:53:18,170 far north of the world unlonely trips 1320 00:53:22,210 --> 00:53:20,060 listening to podcasts including the 1321 00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:22,220 skeptic zone and if you're in one of 1322 00:53:27,190 --> 00:53:24,410 those long distance trucks right now 1323 00:53:28,990 --> 00:53:27,200 thank you very much and I hope that the 1324 00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:29,000 skeptic zone makes your journey a little 1325 00:53:33,640 --> 00:53:31,610 more enjoyable and so for this week this 1326 00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:33,650 is Richard Saunders signing off from 1327 00:53:45,230 --> 00:53:41,480 you've been listening to the skeptics 1328 00:53:48,140 --> 00:53:45,240 own podcast visit our website at wwc a 1329 00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:48,150 petting zoo TV for contacts an archive 1330 00:53:54,290 --> 00:53:51,570 of all episodes since 2008 and our 1331 00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:54,300 online store please support the skeptic 1332 00:53:59,360 --> 00:53:56,210 zone by following us on twitter at 1333 00:54:02,990 --> 00:53:59,370 skeptic zone liking us on facebook and 1334 00:54:05,150 --> 00:54:03,000 leaving a review on iTunes you can also 1335 00:54:08,350 --> 00:54:05,160 show your support by subscribing via 1336 00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:08,360 paypal for as little as 99 cents a week 1337 00:54:12,740 --> 00:54:11,130 the skeptic zone is an independent 1338 00:54:15,170 --> 00:54:12,750 production the views and opinions 1339 00:54:17,240 --> 00:54:15,180 expressed on the skeptic zone and not 1340 00:54:19,670 --> 00:54:17,250 necessarily those of Australian skeptic 1341 00:54:29,660 --> 00:54:19,680 League or any other skeptical 1342 00:54:32,390 --> 00:54:29,670 organization it's just this amazing 1343 00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:32,400 disconnect edit hang on I've got I've 1344 00:54:39,230 --> 00:54:37,530 got the cat hang on myself what is it no 1345 00:54:43,820 --> 00:54:39,240 you can't come in i'm doing an interview 1346 00:54:48,340 --> 00:54:43,830 no no out you stay there i'll feed you 1347 00:54:51,470 --> 00:54:48,350 in a minute all right that was Henrietta 1348 00:54:53,930 --> 00:54:51,480 she said she sticks her pores under the 1349 00:54:55,220 --> 00:54:53,940 door a good little gap and suddenly I'm 1350 00:55:01,490 --> 00:54:55,230 sitting there and I can see these two 1351 00:55:02,990 --> 00:55:01,500 white arms cat arms no here anyway get 1352 00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:03,000 that one we're recording skeptics to the 1353 00:55:07,610 --> 00:55:05,970 K mykes mykes cat whitnall pushes the 1354 00:55:09,860 --> 00:55:07,620 door open and walks in and then Michael 1355 00:55:11,630 --> 00:55:09,870 shop get out and with little walk over 1356 00:55:13,850 --> 00:55:11,640 to the door and stand right on the door 1357 00:55:15,350 --> 00:55:13,860 threshold right on the line and just 1358 00:55:17,240 --> 00:55:15,360 stand there and look back at him and it 1359 00:55:18,980 --> 00:55:17,250 got out and then adventure walk out the 1360 00:55:20,390 --> 00:55:18,990 door but you she'll push a look and try 1361 00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:20,400 and applause but you'll stand right on